Topic: Truth and fact

[EdOtt]

I Have been reading and studing Quran for sometime now and i know that the Quran is true and that everthing written in it is true, but i do not believe everything in it is a fact and feel that to say everything in it is a fact will lead to blasphemy. Somethings in the Quran are figurative and others are parables. This is not to say that there are not facts in the Quran or that the Quran is not mostly factual. Does this leave me outside of what most Muslims believe. I have many Muslims here in Baton Rouge who agree with me but many who call me a heretic.

Peace

Your brother in Islam
Edward

[Advisor]

Well Ed
The Quraan is a divine book so every thing in it is a fact and truth.
this is the basis of Islamic beleif. So saying anything in it is wrong is the same as saying Muhammad is a liar
which means a denial of the second Testemonial of faith. which is a Blasphemy.

Still I didn't quite understand your stand on the subject.

You may want to look at this thread. read it all and tell me if that is what U mean..

[EdOtt]

I believe that all in the Quran is true, But not necessarily Fact the diference being somethings are parable and some are to be taken figuratively not literaly. such as

020.005
The Beneficent One, Who is established on the Throne.
 
i do not believe that Allah the creator of all is sitting on a throne of any physical type anywhere.

I am sorry but i must be going now, I will post more examples if you wish tommorow.

peace

[Advisor]

OK let me explain

this translation of a Verse you are reffering to. is a Wrong translation.
(unfortunatly lots of Quraan translations have such grave mistakes)

Please read the link I gave in the post above.

In short it explains that Quraanic verses are 2 kinds: Muhkamat and Mutashabihat.

Muhkamat: have only one possible meaning in the Arabic Language

Mutashabihat: Have 2 or more meanings in Arabic. So we must take the meaning that doesn't contradict a verse of the above type.

The verse you are reffering to is of the second type. this is not what it means. because it will contradict other Muhkamat verses.
Like the one says what means "He(Allah) resembels nothing(of His creation)"

Read the Link and Inshaallah you'll understand better.

Of course Allah cannot be attributed by "sitting" this for things like animals & Humans.
Saying that Allah sits or exists in place is Unislamic. Allah existed eternally. before He created place or light or darkness. and Change is impossible on Him. because change is something that happens to created beings. So Allah exists without a place thus not a body (solid or spirit) nor an Image.
 

[EdOtt]

OK fine but somethings in the Quran are parables and allegorical. I know this as The Quran tells me this and the Quran is True.
I will say some things are symbolic and true, they are not literal fact.

***Warning: these lateral translations of Quraan are not very accurate. mostly they are wrong***** Modo

002.026 Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,

016.075 Allah sets forth a parable: (consider) a slave, the property of another, (who) has no power over anything, and one whom We have granted from Ourselves a goodly sustenance so he spends from it secretly and openly; are the two alike? (All) praise is due to Allah! Nay, most of them do not know.

014.018
The parable of those who reject their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a tempestuous day: No power have they over aught that they have earned: that is the straying far, far (from the goal).

003.007 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

005.064 The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

[EdOtt]

I have actually now been able to read the thread you mention and that is exactly what i am saying i do not see why now since you refer  me to it that you seem to argue agaisnt my point?

[Advisor]

I have actually now been able to read the thread you mention and that is exactly what i am saying i do not see why now since you refer  me to it that you seem to argue agaisnt my point?

Edott I simply didn't understand your point 100%.
You see we must be careful what terms we use to describe our thoughts about Quraan.
as you can see in the thread I gave, no where the author says: this verse is not a fact.

If this is what U mean, we agree on this subject.

[seherezade1001]

Asalam Alaykoum;
I have a question for you, dear brother:
Why do you think, that some facts in the Quran are not true?
You know that Allah is the greatest and so you know that Allah is able to do
everything he want to.  :wink:
Can you name me specific terms of which you think ,that they are not based on truth? :wink:
Wa alaykoum Asalam

[CrescentOfTheMoon]

Asalam Alaykoum;
I have a question for you, dear brother:
Why do you think, that some facts in the Quran are not true?
You know that Allah is the greatest and so you know that Allah is able to do
everything he want to.  :wink:
Can you name me specific terms of which you think ,that they are not based on truth? :wink:
Wa alaykoum Asalam

nice point we got here ...
baraka'allhu biki : )

[EdOtt]

Asalam Alaykoum;
I have a question for you, dear brother:
Why do you think, that some facts in the Quran are not true?
You know that Allah is the greatest and so you know that Allah is able to do
everything he want to.  :wink:
Can you name me specific terms of which you think ,that they are not based on truth? :wink:
Wa alaykoum Asalam

nice point we got here ...
baraka'allhu biki : )

As the thread the brother directs me to points out everything in the Quran is true, but is not a literal fact.

Peace