Topic: What really is the justification for Hijab?

[abdurrahman]

Hello All:

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I am not here to offend or irritate anyone or pick fights, I am just interested in arriving at the truth and nothing but the absolute, irrefutable truth.

I do not see any concrete justification for the hijab/burka or even for women to cover their heads (the so-called Islamic head-scarf) in the Quran. The only thing the Quran explicitly forbids Muslim women to do is gaze, dress immodestly or uncover their private parts or breasts in public.

Most other so-called "dominants beliefs" seem to stem from an unfounded Hadith that narrates a story about how Muhammad (PBUH) instructed women to uncover only their hands and faces. Does it not befall on us to question whether this interpretation is valid today, especially given the appropriateness of such a dress code in the peculiar circumstances of the desserts of Arabia in the fourth century?

Again, I am not here to pick fights. It is just that the typical "hijab" dress code seems nonsensical in the context of the world as it is today. Hasn't the protection of the modern legal system made obsolete the necessity for such draconian measures to protect men and women for each other? Aren’t the verses in the Quran regarding dress code more appropriate in terms of safeguarding against arrogance, pretension and moral excesses (like prancing around half naked on stage, putting one's "beautiful" body on display for men to admire) in modern times?

Sincerely,
Reza

[Exterminatus]

[SIZE=-5]Text in black written by exterminatus[/SIZE]

 
However, your words for the most part will fall on deaf ears. <<<Edited by Modo>>>


Read the Q'uran for yourself
Islam is not dead, <<<Edited by modo>>>  One of these steps is to stop forcing women to wear hijab.

It's just as bad to go out of the way to conceal yourself as it is to make yourself as an object to be leered at on stage.

Women are not forced to wear hijab. Rather they are ORDERED TO by their CREATOR. And, if you wern't ignorant about the topic, you would see that many, many women CHOOSE to wear the hijab!!!! Out of fear of their Lord.

[abdurrahman]

You are absolutely correct. However, your words for the most part will fall on deaf ears. Most of the so-called "Muslims" on these forums are so mired in legalistic tradition and idiocy they can't see past their own noses.

Much in the same way that Constantine and the later Catholics ruined Christianity, these people have ruined Islam with their legalistic garbage that not only reflect the inherent cultural flaws of the Arabs but their own insecurities.

Read the Q'uran for yourself then ask yourself how half the nonsense spewed here is even in those verses. Hint: IT ISN'T.

Islam is not dead, it just needs to go back to its original glory before the Arabs screwed it up. One of these steps is to stop forcing women to wear hijab.

It's just as bad to go out of the way to conceal yourself as it is to make yourself as an object to be leered at on stage.

Dear Exterminatus:

For the most part, I agree with what you say. However, I must tell you that I do not find the way you say it very agreeable. I have no idea what your individual circumstances are that lead you to your conclusions or choice of words; I dare say it is easy to be frustrated with the failures of the Muslim World. But I also dare say it is even easier to buy a little too much into deliberate anti-Muslim propaganda and forget that the systematic attack on ordinary Muslims had been continued for the better part of a century. I don't think is it productive to be too judgmental or harsh on a beleaguered society under constant attack from many sides, within and without.

If you truly are interested in rising above mudslinging and getting your point across as well as listening to the other side of the story, I beg you to be at least attempt to be more cordial.

Islam is not dead by the farthest stretch of the imagination. Individual Muslims today are achieving a lot more than their ancestors have, even despite the current political crisis. I think most indicators point to a remarkable Muslim reinvigoration in our lifetime. This is not the time to "write off," degrade or denigrate Muslims, it is time to encourage them to seek their destiny as a great people with a bright future. I think most people on this forum are here not just to make their voices heard, but also to listen to others. Nothing would be a greater sign of ignorance than to proclaim the hackneyed stereotype that Arabs are stupid, insecure and stubborn. Let's not forget it is Arab courage and intellect that spread the word of Islam to a quarter of the World's population, kept the flame of human civilization brightly burning as Europe immersed itself in Barbarism for more than a thousand years, and successfully defeated the triple scourges of Colonialism, Communism and Western moral decadence/soulless capitalism.

I hope you can see my plea to you as a suggestion from a friend and ally who is interested in listening...by the way, I would prefer to address you by your real name instead of a dubious alias like “Exterminatus” – with all due respect, it hardly engenders logical discussion or tolerance.

Sincerely,

Reza

[sweetwaterfalls]

However, your words for the most part will fall on deaf ears.

"These people" Who are you referring to? Islam is not ruined.

Originally posted by Exterminatus
Read the Q'uran for yourself

I am sure many here have more knowledge about the Qur'an than you. Do you know the whole of the Qur'an, in Arabic? How can you make a claim that what is written here, quoted from the Qur'an is not? A^uthu billah

Originally posted by Exterminatus
Islam is not dead, <<<Edited by modo>>>  One of these steps is to stop forcing women to wear hijab.

It is typical for an person who is ignorant of Islam, and the rules pertaining to the Religion to come out with such words.
Muslim women like me LOVE the hijab!!!!  The hijab is a dress of modesty, thus some ignorant people looking at a woman dressed in such come to the conclusion she has been forced to wear it, because she wouldn't out of choice!! Yaa Allah.  

Originally posted by Exterminatus
It's just as bad to go out of the way to conceal yourself as it is to make yourself as an object to be leered at on stage.

How did you come to this conclusion?
God is the MOST WISE, He Knows what is best for His Creation.

Women are not forced to wear hijab. Rather they are ORDERED TO by their CREATOR. And, if you wern't ignorant about the topic, you would see that many, many women CHOOSE to wear the hijab!!!! Out of fear of their Lord.

[sweetwaterfalls]

Abdur-Rahman,

It is commonly known among the Muslims that it is obligatory for the female to cover her ^Awrah (Unlawful nakedness) when around those who are marriagable to her.
Note, the ^awrah of the female is everything but the face and hands (and feet according to some). It is not obligatory for the woman to cover her face.


There is proof of this contained in the Qur'an, the hadith and among the consensus of the Scholars. As brother Maqdisee mentioned in another thread:

 There are many proofs that shows the obligation of wearing the Hijab (body cover) on women from Qura’an , Hadeeth, and Muslim scholars Ijma’, and there are some details follows that, but for answering your question I’ll mention one verse from the holy Qur’an:

From the Qur’an the verse number 31 in Surat Annour / ( æáÇ íÈÏíä ÒíäÊåä ÅáÇ ãÇ ÙåÑ ãäåÇ þ) (wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illaa maa Thahara minhaa) which means that women should not show from their bodies except the face and the hands (what is covered when you where a full gloves).

 Ayeshah (the wife of the Prophet ) and Imam Abdullah eben Abbas said in explaining the exception of what is allowed to be shown is the face and hands, and the same Imam Ahamd said. And that is clear that every thing else other than the face and the hands should be covered from the body.

Allah has made it an OBLIGATION upon the woman to cover all but her face and hands.Therefore, if she does not, she is disobeying Allah, which is punishable.

Know, that there is much Wisdom as to why we are odered by our Creator do do specific things. We may not see it, but there is always Wisdom. Allah is Most Wise.

We know that we are obligated to pray 5 times a day. This is commonly known. We don't question this. We obey Allah by performing the act.
Similarly to the mandeel, or scarf. The woman is obligated to wear it, so she doesn't question it or make excuses so as not to wear it, rather she performs the act to obey the One who Created her.


You said:

Does it not befall on us to question whether this interpretation is valid today, especially given the appropriateness of such a dress code in the peculiar circumstances of the desserts of Arabia in the fourth century?

Again, I am not here to pick fights. It is just that the typical "hijab" dress code seems nonsensical in the context of the world as it is today.

Why is is that you question the hijab in the present day?

Allah ordered the woman with this, and she obeys. It might be said whether the world changes further in the next 200 years it will not make a difference.
Time may pass, and things around us may change. But Islam will not and the rules of the Religion must be adhered to.
 
The hijab is a beautiful garment for the woman to wear. It protects her from many things. Don't listen to those who mock the woman in hijab, or those who feel sorry for the woman in hijab. Allah Knows Best.


There are many threads about this topic , which may have much more information.

I suggest you take a look.


:wave2

[Exterminatus]

Dear Exterminatus:

For the most part, I agree with what you say. However, I must tell you that I do not find the way you say it very agreeable.

Sorry, I'm just fed up.

I have no idea what your individual circumstances are that lead you to your conclusions or choice of words;

I've been exposed to one too many phonies claiming to be the spokesperson of their religion whenin fact they are not.

I dare say it is easy to be frustrated with the failures of the Muslim World. But I also dare say it is even easier to buy a little too much into deliberate anti-Muslim propaganda

I don't like anti-Muslim propoganda either, nor to I like the jerks who propogate it.

 I don't think is it productive to be too judgmental or harsh on a beleaguered society under constant attack from many sides, within and without.

Quite the contrary, I believe that it is pertinent that societies which are failing to receive harsh criticism. If only Rome had benefitted from external invective.

If you truly are interested in rising above mudslinging and getting your point across as well as listening to the other side of the story, I beg you to be at least attempt to be more cordial.

Point taken, sorry about that.

Islam is not dead by the farthest stretch of the imagination.

I agree

This is not the time to "write off," degrade or denigrate Muslims, it is time to encourage them to seek their destiny as a great people with a bright future.

I am not denigrating Muslims, but rather people who call themselves Muslims. A great people can only rise if ignorance and legalism are dissipated.

Nothing would be a greater sign of ignorance than to proclaim the hackneyed stereotype that Arabs are stupid, insecure and stubborn.

Arabs are not stupid, insecure, or stubborn, but their current culture which has nothing to do with the Islam of the past is very much ignorant, insecure, and stubborn.

Let's not forget it is Arab courage and intellect that spread the word of Islam to a quarter of the World's population, kept the flame of human civilization brightly burning as Europe immersed itself in Barbarism for more than a thousand years, and successfully defeated the triple scourges of Colonialism, Communism and Western moral decadence/soulless capitalism.

Indeed. It's time we returned the favor.

[Exterminatus]

stuff

Why can't Allah do the punishing instead of humans? Is not Allah more suited to the task of dealing out punishment than us puny mortals?

And why do you think that a woman needs protection? I agree it is wrong and stupid for a woman to dress revealingly, but to go out of the way is a sign of insecurity. You have been brainwashed into believeing that somehow that method of control is somehow freedom.

I have no problem with women who choose to wear hijab out of their own free will if they so choose, but to FORCE women is abhorrent.

It's the difference between force and freedom.

[am10302]

Why can't Allah do the punishing instead of humans?

How is Hijab punishment? Allah creates everything as you would know if you had payed attention to any posts on this site.

 

Is not Allah more suited to the task of dealing out punishment than us puny mortals?

And why do you think that a woman needs protection? I agree it is wrong and stupid for a woman to dress revealingly, but to go out of the way is a sign of insecurity. You have been brainwashed into believeing that somehow that method of control is somehow freedom.

How would you have any idea of what it is like to wear Hijab? How is is controlling? I have had experience of wearing anything as a non-Muslim, to wearing modest clothing but no scarf as a Muslim to wearing full Hijab as I do now, you have no idea how much better I feel now! Not only does it feel good as I am doing it for the sake of Allah and in fear of Him, but in a superficial way, I am no longer self-conscious, nor concentrate on what am I going to wear tomorrow so that I look really nice, as I know all the clothes I now wear always look nice, and although I have loads and loads of choice about what to wear, there are no funny side issues along with it. As for being brainwashed, look to yourself and the propaganda that you yourself have been brainwashed by. You may claim to despise this, but it has obviously had some sort of influence on you.

I have no problem with women who choose to wear hijab out of their own free will if they so choose, but to FORCE women is abhorrent.

Forcing anyone to do anything is not good, but women know that they should so there shouldn't be this attitude that it is forced, it shouldn't need to be. I agree that it is in some places, but don't take the attitude that we are all forced, the majority are not.

It's the difference between force and freedom.

And the difference between ignorance and acceptance

[sweetwaterfalls]

Barak Allahufiki my dear sis Aaliyah

Why can't Allah do the punishing instead of humans? Is not Allah more suited to the task of dealing out punishment than us puny mortals?

Every accountable person is accountable in the Hereafter for how they spend their life in this world. Depending on the way they spent their life, they will be Rewarded or Punished by Allah, ta^ala.

Originally posted by Exterminatus
And why do you think that a woman needs protection? I agree it is wrong and stupid for a woman to dress revealingly, but to go out of the way is a sign of insecurity. You have been brainwashed into believeing that somehow that method of control is somehow freedom.

You may have misunderstood my point. The fact that I may or may not think that the woman needs protection is irrelevant. Islam is not a religion based upon ones opinion. The woman has been ordered to cover herself. Accept it. She is obligated to cover all but her face and hands like I mentioned previously. However, if a woman does cover more of herself than is obligated to for the sake of Allah, it is rewardable.  

I don't see what you mean about 'go out of her way'. For a woman to complete her outfit with a scarf covering her beauty is not an 'extreme' act.
Your claim about this being a sign of insecurity is totally false. It is more likely that she is totally secure within herself and thus she has the strength to perform such an honourable act of worship.

A woman who struggles to feel beautiful in constant comparison of what is shown as 'beauty' within the mainstream media and the like is not what I call a woman who is secure. Such as many within ‘Western’ societies. Is this the kind of woman you call free? A woman who feels obliged to conform to changing fashions, a woman who exposes her body in order to attract attention from men, and who feels depressed and insecure if she is not desired by men? You claim that the ‘West’ is a place of freedom, yet many of these women are far from feeling free. So who are the ones who are really brainwashed? The woman who fulfils an act of worshp in obedience to her Lord is far from this.

Originally posted by Exterminatus
I have no problem with women who choose to wear hijab out of their own free will if they so choose, but to FORCE women is abhorrent.

It's the difference between force and freedom.

I congratulate the women who do have the strength to make that step in covering their beauty by wearing the hijab. However, it is not all about choice. Again, back to the point of this being an OBLIGATORY act. She does not have a choice in the matter. If she performs the act, then this is rewardable, however if she does not, then this is punishable.

Furthermore, the Muslim will know it as a duty to forbid the unlawful act. If a woman is neglecting her duty in covering herself, it is obligatory upon the Muslim to forbid it as it is haram. If they are able to forbid it by their hand, then they should do this, if not, then by their tongue, and if not then they should hate this act in their heart.

[abdurrahman]

Sorry, I'm just fed up.



I've been exposed to one too many phonies claiming to be the spokesperson of their religion whenin fact they are not.




I don't like anti-Muslim propoganda either, nor to I like the jerks who propogate it.




Quite the contrary, I believe that it is pertinent that societies which are failing to receive harsh criticism. If only Rome had benefitted from external invective.



Point taken, sorry about that.


I agree



I am not denigrating Muslims, but rather people who call themselves Muslims. A great people can only rise if ignorance and legalism are dissipated.



Arabs are not stupid, insecure, or stubborn, but their current culture which has nothing to do with the Islam of the past is very much ignorant, insecure, and stubborn.



Indeed. It's time we returned the favor.

Bravo, my friend, it takes a brave man to realize and admit their mistakes! I know it is hard, but do not give up patience...the truth is not really that hard to establish, it just takes some honest effort that is well worth it.